The Secular Barbershop Visits The Skeptic Studio

September 30, 2016 Episode 55

.Hi and welcome to the first episode of the Brainstorm podcast’s Skeptic Studio where we do interviews, major topics, and news related to skepticism and atheism. I’m Cory and my panel tonight are Destin, Angela, Leo, and Rene, with the always amazing Dave doing sound. We’re here in Roman Empire studios in Regina, Saskatchewan. The Skeptic Studio is brought to you by Reasonist Ink, atheist, skeptic, and science based apparel. You can find them at www.reasonistink.com. Tonight’s guest is the host of The Secular Barbershop, a podcast by a secularist of color for people of all colors. Uber4ortyse7en is great at ranting, is an avid gamer, a horror movie fan and a fellow nerd

Happy international blasphemy/podcasting day!

Support the show by becoming a Patron. You can get the full episode, ad free, and early on Patreon if you're a Patron.

You can listen to The Skeptic Studio >>>>>>>here(available on October 3)
You can listen to Shift To Reason Radio>>>>>>>here(available on October 10)

or you can download The Skeptic Studio>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>here(on October 3)
or you can download Shift To Reason Radio>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>here(on October 10)

(right click and 'save link as' to download)

as episodes are released there will be an embedded player in this post

The Skeptic Studio

Click the picture to check out Uber's webstie

Click the picture to check out Uber's webstie

Links from our chat with Uber

http://www.thesecularbarbershop.com/

Check out the Secular Barbershop on Youtube

Follow the Secular Barbershop on Facebook and follow Uber4ortyse7en on Twitter

Featured podcast of the week: Secular Yakking

Check out our sponsor: Absence of Clothing

Ok, so now that we’re back you may have noticed a slight difference in the intro. We’re adding a couple new rss feeds to increase exposure for the podcast. If you already subscribe to Brainstorm on Itunes, Stitcher, or some other podcatcher then you don’t have to change anything. If you follow the Brainstorm Podcast user feed on Spreaker then things will be slightly different. We’re doing the live show under the Brainstorm feed but that always gets taken down the day after the podcast so that I can take out the ads and add it to the Patreon page. Then I split the episode in two and put out half each week. Well, now we’re naming each half, first the Skeptic Studio, and then Shift to Reason radio. Each of those halves will have it’s own rss feed and will be listed as their own shows on Spreaker. Like I said, if you’re already subscribed then nothing will change for you. This is just a way to make it easier for new listeners to find us. Each half will be focused in a particular way. The Skeptic Studio will be interviews, news stories, and general topics related to atheism and skepticism. Shift to Reason radio will be the educational portion of the show. On the website, going forward, each half will be in it’s own blog listing under the title that goes with it, with links for the music break being on the blog page for The Skeptic Studio. We’re hoping that this change makes things more focused and people can not only find us easier but can find the notes they are interested in, easier. For patrons, don’t worry, nothing changes for you. You still get all 3 hours of the show, twice a month and will only be charged for those. We will be releasing bonus content more as time goes on. We’re just a few months behind. Just a quick explanation of our current patreon model. We do our live show, including ads and music break. Patrons get that show without the ads the day after the live broadcast. That’s the only time patrons get charged. Bonus content is free but exclusive to patrons, and I don’t split the episodes up and double charge patrons for each half.

And now, on with the show

Religious Nuttery

Rene’s Story

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/bible-theme-park-moose-jaw-sask-1.3772520

http://www.mjtimes.sk.ca/News/Local/2016-09-20/article-4645625/New-Bible-theme-park-planned-near-Moo

Leo’s Story

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/university-of-arizonas-slut-shaming-brother-dean-arrested-for-assault-vgtrn?utm_source=vicefbca

Music Break

For regular feed subscribers this is where we’ll end the skeptic studio. I hope you enjoyed it. Remember to subscribe on Itunes, Stitcher or some other podcatcher and we’ll have shift to reason radio for you next week.. If you can’t wait for it then go become a patron at www.Patreon.com/brainstormpodcast. So here’s the music break – Dig by Incubus as a reminder to keep our egos in check, If you drink you die by Barton and Sweeney because lately I’ve been really wishing Atheists On Air was still a show, and Last Prayer by Chris Beland which I heard recently on No Religion Required and something about the song struck a chord for me. So, enjoy and we’ll see you in a few minutes.

There's no video for the song we played so clicking on the picture will take you to Chris Beland's website

There's no video for the song we played so clicking on the picture will take you to Chris Beland's website

Shift To Reason Radio

To those listening live or to our patrons, welcome back. For those listening weekly, welcome to Shift To Reason radio the Brainstorm production that focuses on science outreach and education. We’ll try our hand at teaching you a little bit about common skeptical topics, logical fallacies and errors in reasoning, as well as a bit about some religious apologetics. This episode is brought to you by audible.com, sign up for your free trial membership and free audiobook at audibletrial.com/brainstorm

Woo Report

Destin’s Story

http://www.naturalnews.com/055347_vaccines_dead_doctors_cancer_enzymes.html

Angela’s Story

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cancercure.asp

https://www.facebook.com/healthyuniqueworld/videos/507018879509230/?pnref=story

Common skeptical topics


Acupuncture

http://skepdic.com/acupuncture.html


What is acupuncture?


Acupuncture is a medical technique usually involving the shallow insertion of needles through the skin at particular points on the body (called acupoints). There are many different kinds of acupuncture, involving different kinds of needles, different insertion points, different techniques, and the use of various accompaniments such as electricity or moxibustion. Some acupuncturists use low energy laser beams; others use magnetic BBs on patches applied to acupoints. There are other variations as well, such as microacupuncture, which uses forty-eight non-traditional acupoints located on the hands and feet, andauriculotherapy or ear acupuncture, which postulates that the ear is a map of the bodily organs. Similar notions about a part of the body being an organ map are held by those who practiceiridology (the iris is the map of the body) and reflexology (the foot is the map of the body) and traditional Chinese medicine (the tongue is the map of the body). Staplepuncture, a variation of auriculotherapy, puts staples at key points on the ear hoping to do such things as help people stop smoking or relieve withdrawal symptoms of heroin addicts. Acupressure applies pressure, rather than needles, to acupoints.


Where did it start?


Acupuncture is thought to have originated in China, but its origins and early use are controversial.
The earliest manuscripts of Chinese medicine date from the second century BCE and they make no mention of acupuncture. A tomb of a Chinese prince dating from the second century BCE contained a set of four gold and five silver needles, but it is speculation that the needles were designed for acupuncture. Stone needles thought to be 5,000 years old have been found in a tomb in Mongolia, but how the needles were used is speculative. Ancient cultures around the world have used needles on humans for such things as tattooing, scarifying, burning, cauterizing, lancing, piercing, and bloodletting
Willem ten Rhijne (1647-1700), a Dutch physician, was the first European to write a detailed account of Chinese and Japanese medicine. He also coined the term acupuncture--acus means needle in Latin and pungere means to prick--and was responsible for bringing the practice to Europe.

http://skepdic.com/SDMistakes/SDmistakes.pdf

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-10-08/

Alternative medicine is medicine that hasn’t been proven to work. Most people think acupuncture has been proven to work, but everything you’ve heard about acupuncture is false. 

 

The theory of acupuncture says: 

      There is a vitalistic energy called qi 

      Qi flows through mythical “meridians” 

      Disease is caused by blockages of qi

      The flow of qi can be restored by inserting needles at “acupoints.” 

 

Qi, meridians, and acupoints are mythical: they have never been shown to exist.

 

None of the following are true:

      It’s an ancient Chinese treatment method. 

      Involves sticking needles in acupoints 

      It’s widely used in China.

      Works to relieve pain and nausea.

      Works for other conditions like infertility.

      Can be used for surgical anesthesia.

      Is harmless – no side effects. 

      Has been validated by scientific research

 

The truth: 

      It’s not as ancient as they claim, and one kind of acupuncture was invented in 1957. 

      It may not be Chinese: may have originated in Greece

      Not “a” method, but many different methods. 

      Many acupuncture methods don’t use needles.

      Not widely used in China:

      Acupuncture anesthesia is a myth

      It’s never used alone for anesthesia, but only as an adjunct to local anesthetics, sedatives, and narcotics.  

      There is disagreement as to the number of meridians and acupoints.

      It is used on animals but humans’ interpretation of animal’s response is influenced by suggestion, so alleged effects are likely placebo. 

 

Could acupuncture effects be explained scientifically?

      Acupuncture increases endorphins, but so do placebo pills. 

      Anatomical verification of acupoints has been attempted, but without success.

      There’s no point in trying to explain how it works unless we can establish that it does work.

 

Does it work?

      It’s claimed to work for all these conditions: addiction (such as alcoholism), allergies, anxiety, asthma, bronchitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, constipation, depression,  diarrhea, endometriosis, facial tics, fibromyalgia, gastroesophageal reflux, headaches, high blood pressure, infertility, irregular menstrual cycles, kidney infections, memory problems, multiple sclerosis, PMS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, low back pain, menopausal symptoms, menstrual cramps, osteoarthritis, pain, pharyngitis, post-operative nausea and vomiting, psychological disorders, sciatica, sensory disturbances, sinusitis, spastic colon (often called irritable bowel syndrome), stroke rehabilitation, tendonitis, tennis elbow, tinnitus, and urinary problems such as incontinence, sports injuries, sprains, strains, ulcers, whiplash. 

      It has been tested for all these conditions and only found effective for two of them: pain and nausea. And the apparent effectiveness in those cases can be explained by a placebo response.

      A study can be found to support almost any claim, but acupuncture studies are inherently flawed: double blind studies are impossible.

      The effects found in the positive studies are small and not clinically useful.

      The best studies show that it doesn’t matter where you put the needles, it doesn’t matter if you use real needles or sham needles; all that matters is whether the patient believes he got true acupuncture.

      A systematic review of systematic reviews found a mix of negative, positive and inconclusive results consistent with the noise that would be expected when studying an ineffective treatment.

Acupuncture is not harmless

      There are at least 95 published reports of serious adverse effects including 5 deaths.

      There are several contraindications.

        •       

Some acupuncturists accept that it is just a placebo but want to use it anyway.

 

Scientists who have evaluated all the published evidence for acupuncture remain skeptical:

      The Center for Inquiry said positive effects were due to expectation.

      The Medical Letter said it “has not been shown in rigorous, duplicated studies to benefit any defined medical condition.”

      Edzard Ernst and Simon Singh concluded that there was only “tentative” evidence that it “might” be effective for some forms of pain relief and nausea, but that it fails to deliver any medical benefit in any other situations, and its underlying concepts are meaningless.

      David Colquhoun and Steven Novella concluded that “Acupuncture is no more than a theatrical placebo.”

 

Continuing to study acupuncture would be a waste of research funds.

For a great overview of the material covered here, check out Harriet Hall’s video series on Alternative medicine and specifically her video on acupuncture. I’ll provide links in the show note. Thanks to Skeptic.com for granting us permission to use their materials.

https://youtu.be/892oljTjaJE?list=PL8MfjLNsf_miVcNu6eJMNigAMNwQkk_B9

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/why-i-am-skeptical-of-acupuncture/

https://sites.google.com/site/skepticalmedicine/pseudoscience-in-health-care/acupuncture

Breaking down the logical fallacies

Suppressed correlative – where a correlative is redefined so that one alternative is made impossible

The fallacy of suppressed correlative is a type of argument that tries to redefine a correlative (one of two mutually exclusive options) so that one alternative encompasses the other, i.e. making one alternative impossible.[1] This has also been known as the fallacy of lost contrast[2] and the fallacy of the suppressed relative.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressed_correlative

A conceptual example:

Person 1: "All things are either X or not X." (The correlatives: X–not X.)

Person 2: "I define X such that all things that you claim are not X are included in X." (The suppressed correlative: not X.)

Alternatively Person 2 can redefine X in way that instead concludes all things are not X.

A simple example based on one by Alexander Bain:[4]

Person 1: "Things are either mysterious or not mysterious. Exactly when an earthquake will strike is still a mystery, but how blood circulates in the body is not."

Person 2: "Everything is mysterious. There are still things to be learned about how blood circulates."

Regardless of whether Person 2's statement about blood circulation is true or not, the redefinition of "mysterious" is so broad that it omits significant contrast in the level of scientific understanding between earthquakes and blood circulation. Bain argues that if we hold the origin of the universe as equally mysterious against simple equations such as 3×4=12, it seems unimaginable what kind of concepts would be described as non-mysterious. Through redefinition "mysterious" has lost any useful meaning, he says.

The redefinition is not always so obvious. At first glance it might appear reasonable to define brakes as "a method to quickly stop a vehicle"; however, this permits all vehicles to be described as having brakes. Any car could be driven into a sturdy barrier to stop it, but to therefore say the car has brakes seems absurd.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/174/Suppressed_Correlative

Rick: I need to know if we should stop for lunch or not.  You are either hungry or not hungry, which is it?Tina: If being hungry is being able to eat, I am always hungry.


Example #2:

Kent: My new car is really fast.
Cal: I doubt that it is as fast as a jet fighter so, therefore, it is not fast.


Exception: Refusing to give into a false dichotomy is not the same as committing the suppressed correlative fallacy.  In example #1, while one cannot be both hungry and not hungry, one can be a little bit hungry.

Rick: I need to know if we should stop for lunch or not.  You are either hungry or not hungry, which is it?
Tina: I am a little bit hungry, so go ahead and stop if you are hungry otherwise I can wait.
Note that this fallacy is not committed because Tina did not attempt to redefine hungry, so “not hungry” is essentially impossible.

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suppressed_correlative
calls it a form of straw man argument

    This is commonly used in debates about whether things are "art"; the question "is it art?" requires some possibility that something might not be art. The common response, that art is defined as an ineffable quality or a method of human expression, removes any possibility that something created by humans could not be classified as art, and therefore cannot possibly be addressing the opponent's actual argument.

    Often used in attempts to classify science or atheism as religious beliefs; the substitute definition of "religion" will typically be so broad that almost any human association would qualify as a religion.

    "I don't view humanity as the same species because we're not all the same" - Stefan Molyneux.

 

Atheism For Dummies -

Counter Apologetics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics#Philosophical_apologetics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument

The basic premise of all of these is the concept of causality and of a first cause. The history of this argument goes back to Aristotle or earlier, was developed in Neoplatonism and early Christianity and later in medievalIslamic theology during the 9th to 12th centuries, and re-introduced to medieval Christian theology in the 13th century by Thomas Aquinas. The cosmological argument is closely related to the principle of sufficient reasonas addressed by Gottfried Leibniz and Samuel Clarke, itself a modern exposition of the claim that "nothing comes from nothing" attributed to Parmenides.

Contemporary defenders of cosmological arguments include William Lane Craig,[3] Robert Koons,[4] Alexander Pruss,[5] and William L. Rowe.[6]

 

Argument from first cause or the prime mover argument

1. Every thing has either been caused to exist by something else or else exists uncaused.
2. Not every thing has been caused to exist by something else.
3. Therefore, at least one thing is itself uncaused.

http://infidels.org/library/modern/theism/cosmological.html

Is not in itself a proof of any god. Definitely not proof of a Christian god. Doesn’t say that the universe can’t be that uncaused cause.

As a result some variations have come about to fix the flaws.

The Kalam Cosmological argument which changes the wording a bit.


1.    Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2.    The Universe began to exist.
3.    Therefore, the Universe had a cause.



Still no proof of any gods. Definitely no proof of the Christian god. Which makes it a bit weird that this is William Lane Craig’s favorite go to argument.

Argument from contingency

From Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle in claiming that there must be something that explains the existence of the universe. Since the Universe could, under different circumstances, conceivably not exist (contingency), its existence must have a cause – not merely another contingent thing but something that exists by necessity (something that must exist in order for anything else to exist).[14] In other words, even if the Universe has always existed, it still owes its existence to an Uncaused Cause,[15] Aquinas further said: "...and this we understand to be God

Still seems to be a conclusion without reason. Aquinas uses the same reasoning to get to there being a necessary first cause and then just asserts that it’s god, because he wants to.

Listener Feedback and shoutouts

New Patrons –  George and Stephanie and Joshua deleted his pledge. Sorry that you didn’t think we were worth your support and hopefully we can get you to come back.

Itunes Reviews

First Listener 5 stars

by Brother Brewer

I am now binge listening to your show! Excellent work, ya crazy Canadians. Your shows prove why Regina rhymes with FUN!

Listener emails

From Will
 I can't think of other ways to get more patrons, but as long as y'all keep making me laugh hard enough that I disturb everyone within a 6 cubical radius I'll keep listening.  Also, all of those folks, though annoyed by me, know your show is funny as hell, and that's free publicity.

From Darryl
I would like to suggest that you try to bring in Lauren from the Atheist Nomads to speak at the next Shift to Reason. She always brings an unexpected and thoughtful perspective to discussions on the show. She also had great comedic timing.

Brainstorm Links
https://www.facebook.com/Brainstormpodcast/

https://twitter.com/BrainstormPod

http://thebrainstormpodcast.com/

http://www.spreaker.com/user/brainstormpodcast

http://www.spreaker.com/show/shift-to-reason-radio

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcS-5sZJpWPH56ykea-nCmA

Links for Angela's stuff
https://www.facebook.com/sparklingmedusa/?pnref=lhc

https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/SparklingMedusa?ref=hdr_shop_menu

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY6_fKmzi5MZFzreVJUbwTA

https://twitter.com/sparklingmedusa

Links for Destin's Stuff
https://www.facebook.com/I-fucking-love-equality

https://www.facebook.com/Atheists-Freethinkers-and-Skeptics

https://twitter.com/DestinCK

Links for Rene's Stuff
https://twitter.com/ReneDoyon

Links for Leo's Stuff
https://twitter.com/leonel__elias

Links for Cory's Stuff
https://www.facebook.com/CJBrainstorm

https://www.facebook.com/hardcoreskeptic/

https://www.facebook.com/Classic-Comics-Review-1786975551543144/

https://www.facebook.com/A-Few-Smart-Guys-155855177800910/

https://twitter.com/HardcoreSkeptic

http://www.spreaker.com/show/classic-comics-review

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrFamine69

So that’s where we’re going to end the episode.  Before we go I want to make sure to mention our website, Brainstormblog.net. We have comprehensive show notes, including any notes that I’ve made regarding my stories and any notes that the rest of the crew gives me for theirs.

Shift to reason update – No updates

Get bonus content, full length ad free episodes and other bonues by becoming a patron at Patreon.com/brainstormpodcast, just like Darryl, Will, Rob, Nathan, Destin, and now George and Stephanie

You can join us for the next live broadcast by following us on Spreaker. Just enter Brainstorm Podcast into the Spreaker search bar or you can go to our website brainstormblog.net and check out the live show page and the upcoming events page.

I was super wrong about when the AB secular conference is. It’s October 15th and 16th.  https://www.facebook.com/ABSecularConference/?fref=ts

 

Remember to rate us and write a review on iTunes or Stitcher and hit that subscribe button. If you leave a review then let us know and remember to tell us where you’re from so we know which store on itunes to look in.

Thanks to Dave for our intro music, thanks to Alix Capper Murdoch for doing the voice over for the intro and for some of our ads, and thank you to Jason Comeau for our outro music. You can find his stuff at www.aloststateofmind.com

All music played is either with permission or under the SOCAN licence to play. For more information on SOCAN you can check out the music license info on our website brainstormblog.net

T-shirts, mugs, and other cool shit is available at www.cafepress.ca/brainstormpodcastgear

We love to hear from our listeners so shoot us an email at mail@brainstormblog.net or go to to our website and hit that contact page. If you have a podcast or website and want a shoutout or have a promo to play let us know. We are also offering advertising to podcasts, bands, people, and organizations on the website. Contact us for rates and options.

Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you in a couple weeks when we have Kavin Senpathy, writer for Forbes and co author of the book, The Fear Babe.